hmmmm.... the freemens sound alot like how the witnesses operate.
a series of three articles from washington state:.
in the loop:.
When Young left the Freeman group in 1995, she felt like she had left a convent and had to learn how people acted in everyday society. She sat in malls and watched shoppers walk, talk, eat, laugh and act ? normal.
She had forgotten what normal was.
A psychologically captivating method of legalism, discipline and peer pressure kept her in the group for decades,
This quote sounds very Watchtowerlike.
More reason to begin to accept that the WTS is more like a cult than not!
Jeff
this should be interesting and fun.. i'm going to get involved in helping my sister with the appeal meeting.
i'm going to call brooklyn and ask them if a person is accused of apostacy and was brought to the elders on that charge but it was determined that there was "repentence".
can elders df on the second time even if that person says sorry...shouldn't the scripture in titus 3:10 apply to this situatioin where it says "as for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition"?.
At times, complicated judicial cases may necessitate con-FF - this is a direct quote from the elder's handbook. I would assume that most congregations would immediately contact the CO or even the branch office in the case of apostasy. So most likely the branch already knows of the case.
sultation with an experienced mature elder in another
congregation or with the circuit overseer. Generally, the pertinent details should be discussed, but
names should not be used.However, when the circuit overseer is the elder consult-
ed or when circumstances require that you contact the
Society, use of names may be necessary. (w87 9/1
pp. 12-15; km 9/77 p. 6)
Just be careful not to implicate yourself too deeply if you want to stay unscathed for the moment
Jeff
this should be interesting and fun.. i'm going to get involved in helping my sister with the appeal meeting.
i'm going to call brooklyn and ask them if a person is accused of apostacy and was brought to the elders on that charge but it was determined that there was "repentence".
can elders df on the second time even if that person says sorry...shouldn't the scripture in titus 3:10 apply to this situatioin where it says "as for a man that promotes a sect, reject him after a first and a second admonition"?.
FF
I think they will interpret that scripture in whatever way suits the moment - just like always.
They have one goal - control. At any and all costs. They cannot afford to let people have opinions, ideas, or individualism in any form.
I doubt that Crooklyn will give you any ammunition. They usually send the reply [or a copy of it] to the body of elders also. They are in kahoots - most likely they will not even reply to you until they have acertained under what circumstances you inquire.
I could be wrong here. Perhaps you can refute them with their own worst enemy - a quote in the publications. They have flipped and flopped on everything else.
Jeff
can anyone tell me why this practice was stopped.
i was told the reason for the guards was to prevent apostates from "attacking" anyone up there and disrupting the program.
has anyonne witnessed an "attack" of apostates gone wild?
I once was in 'security' at assemblies. They always told us not to tackle any who showed violence. Not even to knock the gun out of his hands - just surround him and force him out of the area.
I never got that - someone with a gun or bomb, and we were supposed to 'passively restrain' him.
I knew that if I ever saw a gun I would tackle the guy. I know that those bullets are real!
Jeff
maybe i'm dreaming, but......is anyone out there willing to scan the book and sell the scan to us ex-non-elders?
i would love to have a copy of the whole thing....i'm sure others would, too.
i scour ebay, but no luck.
There must be a reason that Jesus said " stop judging, and you will by no means be judged; and stop condemning and you will by no means be condemned'. Luke 6:37 NWT
Of course you don't see that scripture quoted often in the watchtower, unless they are trying to get the R&F into line somehow - but never to the elders.
Jeff
maybe i'm dreaming, but......is anyone out there willing to scan the book and sell the scan to us ex-non-elders?
i would love to have a copy of the whole thing....i'm sure others would, too.
i scour ebay, but no luck.
Dragonlady76-
I must agree. Wouldn't repentance be a matter between the offender and God? Why would 'listening to them', meaning the elders, be a cause for granting the offender 'amnesty'.
Just a big power trip I think.
Jeff
recalling the acts 19 version of saul/paul's conversion we might be surprised of a striking parallel in 2 maccabees 3, which tells of a man named heliodorus, sent by a foreign king to plunder the jerusalem temple.
"24when he arrived at the treasury with his bodyguard, then and there the sovereign of spirits and of all authority caused so great a manifestation that all who had been so bold as to accompany him were astounded by the power of god, and became faint with terror.
25for there appeared to them a magnificently caparisoned horse, with a rider of frightening mien; it rushed furiously at heliodorus and struck at him with its front hoofs.
All of this is high-sounding and philosophical. And I respect the hard work and thinking that has shaped individual's thinking, but couldn't Paul's conversion story be just Paul's conversion story? Why does it have to have roots in something else at all?
Certainly throughout history, millions of persons have had life experience that is similar or even perhaps nearly identical to others. Sometimes the person may be aware of that similarity, other times perhaps not. Does this make the later persons' experience just a reconstructed recounting of another's experience?
Just wondering - no judgement of anyone's opinion
Jeff
how do you guys find the time to chat on this board all day?
I work three days - 12 hours. In the summer I will not be here too much. But it is winter now.
Jeff
as i told kl, i'm not sabotaging her thread, mine has a twist, for example, my wife 'descibes' me best by always reminding that i'm not 'normal.
' this means i do things differently than the ordinary person as i'm into many activities.
many of these activities involve people.
I am cerebral at times -and ignorant of most of this world from be a dub too long.
My passion is golf - and I hate winter. [because my passion is golf]
I'm a loner mostly - but my real friends are important to me.
I love well painted canvass, flowers, and the huggs from my grandkids.
I am not materialisic at all - but I like convenience of modern life. No techie but not living in the dark ages
I have a flair for cooking - should have been a chef -
Unconventional - I hate fitting into a mold at work in worship or dress.
I love to debate at times - but other times I just walk away from a fight.
Jeff
jw's at least *try* to have scriptural backing for all their little doctrines.
it may only be two obscure references to two cultures a thousand years apart celebrating a birthday, but at least they've got *something*.. have you ever known them to pony up any sort of biblical reference to justify the formation of a "judicial committee"?
i know they have their pet shunning scriptures, but that's after the committee meets and decides to axe you.
They are exposed by their own words! That's what they said about Israel's legal system: *** g81 1/22 p. 17 Searching Out Legal Roots *** Since the local court was situated at the city gates, there was no question about the trial being public! (Deut. 16:18-20) No doubt the public trials helped influence the judges toward carefulness and justice, qualities that sometimes vanish in secret star-chamber hearings. Neo
Actually - don't those positive qualities always vanish in JC meetings?
Blondie - you mention Bible Student Groups - are these Russell offshoots? The ones always refered to as 'evil slave' in the earlier years? Do they still function?
Jeff
